More on the "David thing"

[beandelphiki]

Okay, just to clear up a little misconception here:

I'M NOT GAY! NOT GAY! NOT GAY! I DON'T WANT DAVID! The Nick thing is over, mmm-kay? It never happened. Return to your regular schedules.

Gah, one of the best things about transition is that I don't have to deal with guys hitting on me anymore. It gives me a COMPLETE panic attack. Panting, sweating, shaking, the whole bit. I don't like it, noooooo. *quaver*

And, um, this has been an overcompensation-type Public Service Announcement. Thank you.

Annnnnd breathe.

Okay.

Now, in the time that has elapsed since my last post, I've been (natch) freaking out a bit. (If you haven't seen it, now would be the time. Otherwise, spoilers ahead!)

I tend to talk to myself when I want to work things out. Yeah, I know that sounds nutty. But I pretend I'm talking to someone else, and I just let my oh-so-wise subconscious take over. I heart my subconscious mind.

In the last little while, I've been talking to myself so much I've nearly gone hoarse. But I'm pretty calm now, and I think I can see things I missed in earlier "now - we panic" moments.



Stef explained to me that David thinks he needs a man. Now, putting "man" aside (none of us are men!), I think that's very telling. I guess he's in the same frame of mind as a lot of people get into around late high school/early college.

Basically, I'd say he's just lonely, and if he really thinks I'm gay, he might as well go for it. Because what other chance will he get, nu? I'm a convenient pair of hips is what it comes down to. Not flattering...but understandable.

I know he's really lonely. He come from a prairie town. Considering this is Alberta, the Canadian Bible belt, I can just imagine what high school was like. He's implied many times that he was treated badly before he came to college, but he seems reluctant to just come out and talk about it.

I guess he probably feels less sure that he'll ever be with someone than most people. But how do you say that "nobody will ever love me" isn't true when you're not sure you believe it yourself? I've felt for a while we have a lot in common.

*sigh*

Mostly, I'm worried because he apparently also told Stef that if she's right that I'm "straight as a wall" (Stef's words, not mine) than he'll go for Jamie. Because Jamie was totally flirting with him last night.

IGNORING that fact that Jamie would make any NORMAL person want to lose his lunch, I think that supports what I think of David's motives. He's desperate. Period.

And that bothers me, because I KNOW I understand Jamie better than anyone else in the program. And I know Jamie's childish need for attention. I know that Jamie didn't have anyone talking to him last night. Except for me, briefly, but I wasn't too talkative. I know he feels slighted.

And I know that when he feels slighted, baby watch out, because he looks for a way to get REVENGE.

Flirting with David accomplishes two things: he gets attention, and he gets to make David feel stupid when he falls for it. He's fucking with David's head. Hell, Jamie even told Stef that he was PLANNING to flirt with David "to make him uncomfortable." (Whatever that means.)

Mmm, David, watch out. Maybe I should warn him?

Comments

[unintentional.livejournal.com]

I don't understand why you're so afraid of being seen as gay. Being gay isn't all that bad, is it?

Perhaps you don't like guys, that's great, fine, dandy, you have your own preference. But jeesh, you don't have to make it sound like a flesh-eating disease.

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

Perhaps you don't like guys, that's great, fine, dandy, you have your own preference. But jeesh, you don't have to make it sound like a flesh-eating disease.

I was JOKING. If you can't tell that from my tone, I'm not sure that's my problem.

I don't understand why you're so afraid of being seen as gay. Being gay isn't all that bad, is it?

I hate being seen as a girl. Because I'm not a girl. Why should gay/stright be different, hmm?

I hate this, "It's not that bad," thing people have said to me. Yes, it is. Why? I don't present as gay. Duh. Naturally, it bothers me to be seen as something I DON'T see myself as, or try to present as. IMHO, it's stupid to imply I should be HAPPY about it. That's just paranoia. Obviously, I don't assign values to being gay or straight outside of myself. At least, I THOUGHT that was obvious.

The whole panic-attack thing. I was supposed to be a GIRL once, and I still had panic attacks, so that didn't have anything to do with being gay, did it?

You can stop acting like I insulted you personally. I didn't. If someone gay said the opposite thing about being mistaken for straight (people on my friends list do), who's going to get insulted? No one. Duh.

Anyways, thanks for your thoughts on DAVID. [/sarcasm]

Re:

[unintentional.livejournal.com]

It's a bit hard to understand a tone in text unless it is specifically pointed out.

It just seems to me that you are AFRAID of being gay, not only being perceived as such. That's where my problem is coming. I realize that there are people that are afraid of being perceived of being straight when they are gay, but I don't know if it's the same thing as being afraid of BEING straight.

That's where my beef comes. I wasn't taking it as a personal diss towards my sexuality, that has nothing to do with the commment.

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

And, um, this has been an overcompensation-type Public Service Announcement. Thank you.

That's not obviously a joke? Gee golly gosh, I must be rusty.

Afraid of being gay vs. perceived as gay, hmm? What gave you the idea I have a problem with the first, not the second? I kinda don't think you have any basis of evidence for that assertion, but enlighten me. Really. I want to know why you think that.

Because it I was afraid of BEING gay, I rather don't think I'd read slash, dress in drag, listen to the QAF soundtrack, or do any number of "gay" things in the fear that I'd find out I was really gay.

Re:

[unintentional.livejournal.com]

Ah, the things that you listed off would give one the idea that you were gay by perceiving you as gay. Therefore, you do those things because you're not afraid of being seen as gay for following stereotypes.

BUT. When it is up in the air as to whether or not you ARE gay, you become very defensive (as of right now).

Oh and the joking? That could be a defense mechinism.

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

Ah, the things that you listed off would give one the idea that you were gay by perceiving you as gay. Therefore, you do those things because you're not afraid of being seen as gay for following stereotypes.

Not by my friends, no, because they KNOW me. Therefore, they are not going to perceive me as gay. It's not like I'd go walking down the street in a dress. Stereotypes, ha. Did you mean gay stereotypes? I'm more the sk8ter boy stereotype, I always thought drag was a weird juxtaposition, actually.

BUT. When it is up in the air as to whether or not you ARE gay, you become very defensive (as of right now).

It's not up in the air. I'm not gay. It was up in the air several weeks ago, didja miss it? I wasn't getting annoyed with people then, because whatever people had to say about being bi was legitimate for that situation.

No, this is still about perception.

And - ahem - this isn't defensive, this is pissed off. Sorry for making the start of this post, I was mainly kidding around. The second part is what I wanted feedback on, if I got any, and it annoys me we're still stuck at this part.

I will admit, if that's what you want, that I overreacted a bit on the last post. But I didn't want a huge misunderstanding going on about this.

Oh and the joking? That could be a defense mechinism.

I haven't the foggiest what you mean. Trying to burn down a gay bar is denial, but humour is healthy, nu?

[unintentional.livejournal.com]

I wasn't so much referring to the drag part of the comment, but feh. It really doesn't matter.

This argument seems to just be growing and going about in a circular fashion, so I say, let's end it. I don't like to fight, I just didn't like what I thought I saw as the point of the post. I was obviously wrong.

Good luck with David.

[vuurvasthouden.livejournal.com]

I don't present as gay. Duh. Naturally, it bothers me to be seen as something I DON'T see myself as, or try to present as.

Sorry to jump into the flamery at such a late date.

How do you know you do't present as gay? And, saying such, how can you make a judgment about the idea of "presenting gay" -- do you mean stereotypically gay? There was a point that I was in a complete fog about the fact that some people sure did think I "presented" as stereotypically gay. But then I accepted it, bought my Trannyfag t-shirt and pranced around the Castro and helped other trannyfags to come to grips with themselves (my comfort with myself helped a couple to come out of denial/the closet/leave their fears behind). But at the same time, I made sure peeps knew that I'm completely bisexual. *g*

I think some of the question goes to these entries and the things you say on your User Info page as well. ::shrugs::

Anyway. Just popping in. May not pop back to this particular post, but hope to see you around somewhere nevertheless.

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

How do you know you do't present as gay?

Erm, well, I said: Naturally, it bothers me to be seen as something I DON'T see myself as, or try to present as. If I do present as gay, it certainly isn't intentional. While I am not going to fly off the handle if someone in rl asks me if I'm gay - it's a valid question - it does bother me when people refuse to RESPECT my answer. And my friends online, unless they're new, should bloody well know by now what my proclivities are. As for "presenting gay" - I'm not sure how I can explain that, but I think if I got annoyed when people thought I was straight, a la robkaiote, I could consider myself presenting gay. :P

I don't think I generally come off as gay; I know a couple of gay people I know have had their gaydar set of by me, but one of them has already told me that she thought I was a lesbian, not a fag. I think that must be more of a passing problem. And David's already mentioned that his gaydar sucks, and he always ends up hitting on straight guys he thinks are gay, so I wouldn't trust his. :D

Even if I do present as gay, I think it just goes back to respecting my answer when I say I'm not.

Now, being well aware of the high numbers of transguys who seem to switch when they get on T, I figure that's a possibility, but it doesn't have a lot of bearing on my life at the moment.

But then I accepted it, bought my Trannyfag t-shirt and pranced around the Castro and helped other trannyfags to come to grips with themselves (my comfort with myself helped a couple to come out of denial/the closet/leave their fears behind).

Heh, well most of the transguys on my list are gay. Actually, most people, period, on my friends list are gay. If I really had a problem with being gay, and not even johnnyboysriot could change that, I would really be a hopeless case.

And the User Info page is most DEFINITELY a joke. It's a pretty snarky joke actually; I wrote it in mockery of some of the "I'm gay, yippee-do-da-day!" bios I've seen. I got the idea for it when I saw someone else linking the "Dick in Chick" graphic. It's me being my cheeky bastard self. I used to change my bio all the time, but I haven't gotten sick of this one yet.

also...

[unintentional.livejournal.com]

I was only joking with my, "is he cute?" comment. I didn't mean to imply that you were/are gay.

Re: also...

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know. It amused me. Just...what a weird question. Heh. You don't even live in the same country as him?

better late then never?

[siegeengine.livejournal.com]

Sorry so late to the pow-wow.
*hugs*

It sounds like a really tough situation. I mean, it's not bad enough you have to worry about the dynamic between yourself and David, now you might have to protect him from Jamie?

At least you seem to have figured out his motives. That's a good start.

I... kinda think maybe you should give him a heads up about Jamie. Maybe you could stall him somehow. (Um, I'm not a relationships expert, I should say up-front) But maybe you could tell him right off, that you're not interested in him as such but maybe you guys could talk.

I don't really know. Maybe you could bring it up in conversation about what sort of trouble he might be having and what sort of people he'd have to look out for... and maybe drop Jamie's name in at that point.

Just seems like the right thing to do. Not necessarily to say "I know you're going to try to hit on Jamie, and he's setting you up" or anything like that. But maybe, "There's lots of unsavory people out there, like Jamie, for instance... who have this reputation..." or something like that.

*more hugs*
wish I could help somehow.

I think the freaking out part for you will be the trickiest part to get over. How to tell him no without chasing him away so you can still talk to him about the other stuff.
You're good, though. You'll find a way.
*one more hug*

[archanglrobriel.livejournal.com]

David's a big boy. If he wants a nice little "Life lesson" then I say let him have it and just try to stay clear of the whole mess. And fwiw, I hate it when people take me as straight (no kidding, it DOES happen) so I can completely relate to what you're saying in the argument above. We want to be read correctly, and fwiw, it makes me jumpy and nervous when women come onto me, so I think "jumpy and squicked" is a fairly normal reaction.