What's going on here?

[beandelphiki]

I'm wondering why exactly people are jumping down the throats of the guy who posted in ftm about going to a women-only college.

I understand and AGREE with what was said - we are men, and we don't belong AT ALL in women-only space.

But.

He specifically said that he does NOT have the money to transfer. The other suggestion seemed to be to wait it out, and that infuriated me, simply from the position of an MtM who will NOT wait to transition, no matter what the hell anybody thinks. It's MY body, goddammit. I do not have the patience, or the remaining SANITY to wait too much longer.

And I don't see why anyone should be telling him what to do with HIS body.

You know what my biggest problem with this is? I don't see why there should be such things as women-only colleges to begin with. Seems damn stupid to me, really. Why would anybody want to go to a college that was only populated by one gender? I see a lot of "inbreeding" happening - so to speak. Consider how women's colleges are rumored to produce all sorts of drivel-spewing brainless lemmings. Not that I believe that, of course.

(I tried to find the link for the Laura Croft thesis, but I couldn't. Damnit.)

Comments

women's colleges

[siegeengine.livejournal.com]

They do have some points in their favor... but they're points that shouldn't exist in the first place.

I mean, they say that at women's colleges the professors can't ignore the female students in favor of the male students... but is that really a reason to build an entire college? I don't see why that problem can't be solved in some more constructive fashion. I mean, what about all of the women who don't go to private women's only schools? Are they just supposed to be academically sacrificed to misogynistic teachers for the rest of time?

And women aren't the only ones discriminated against! Even if they build a new school for every group that gets slighted by the predominantly white male college professors and administrators, that won't save the majority of our youth who will still have to go to "normal" colleges and universities.

Further, the problems don't only exist in college. Studies have shown this happens frequently in high schools, jr. high, and grade schools as well. There is a "learned inferiority" that is drilled into many female students long before they ever set foot in a college. Instead of slapping gauze on the weeping sore, they should shoot the entire school system with some heavy Amoxicillin.

uh.. IMHO.
:)

Re: women's colleges

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

I mean, they say that at women's colleges the professors can't ignore the female students in favor of the male students...

*deep breath*

*unfold his fold-up soapbox, climbs up*

Actually, I think the whole idea that girls are worse off in school is BS, but there's no way most guys could know that, because they get fed that all the time. Now, this MOSTLY has to do with school BEFORE college, so I can't really speak for college itself. But I think the whole idea that girls are disadvantaged at school at all is wrong-headed. And if girls STILL believe they are disadvantaged when they go to college simply because other women tell them they are, then that allows women to play the victim.

My mom started reading up on a lot of school shtuff when she pulled my sister out of the public system, and this is what she told me (i.e. anything that's incorrect is what my mom told me *innocent*...well, that, plus what I've read in some parenting magazines. There've been some stories on this now.):

Once upon a time, girls did worse in school than boys. Especially in science/math. Then one day, the feminists found out. And the feminists climbed up on THEIR soapboxes and yelled at the [public] education system. And the education system was cowed, and the education system bowed. And the education system worked to implement girl-friendly teaching methods. The feminists had won! And the feminists sat down and mostly shut up about that for a while.

But the feminists had already won the fight before it began. Because even before there were official policies regarding getting girls to like math class, the previous trend was starting to turn around, and it was BOYS that were starting to end up disadvantaged. But because of the Great Feminist Uproar, the school boards had to look like they were trying to solve a problem that wasn't as big as the public thought it was. So they made the problem even worse for boys than it otherwise would have been.

Boys are NOT equipped to handle school the way it is right now. It's very girl-oriented. Too much focus on verbal/linguistics (things most girls are naturally better at than boys) and not enough breaks for physical movement. (Typically boy stuff.) Boys can't concentrate for long until they are older. That puts them at a distinct disadvantage that will echo for years.

More women now graduate from college/university than men. Women are taking over in science/math areas - the ones they were supposed to be the worst at! I read in McLeans just a couple of weeks ago about how in a couple of major Canadian universities, women make up 52% of the medical students. And that number is growing.

My $0.02:

Having been both a boy and a "girl" in public high school, I can tell you which one gets better treatment. I had to come out to some teachers, and I watched how their behaviour toward me changed. Girls get help much more willingly. This might have something to do with an assumption that boys are smarter, but who ACTUALLY benefits?

*climbs down off soapbox*

Anyway, I do agree with the rest. *sheepish grin*

Re: women's colleges

[siegeengine.livejournal.com]

Hmm.. that's very interesting.

I had not thought about it from that angle, but I can see your point. Makes sense. Any thoughts on why the trend started to change (before the people yelled about changing it)? I just think that's odd that suddenly a trend for boys to do better in science, etc, would reverse itself.

I guess the whole feminist movement was active at that time, and the "free-love" '60s really changed the way people looked at themselves, and at colleges, etc. Maybe that broke down some of the authoritarian control that profs and admins had at schools and encouraged more free thinking.

Anyway, appreciate the education and your thoughts.
as always.

Re: women's colleges

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

Any thoughts on why the trend started to change (before the people yelled about changing it)? I just think that's odd that suddenly a trend for boys to do better in science, etc, would reverse itself.

I'm not totally sure...what I've read really wasn't too clear. But here's my best guess:

SOMETHING motivated people to look into it. No ideas there - it may have been the 60's thing you mentioned. Maybe people complained.

But I suspect the trend was starting to turn around simply because there were studies that found girls to be disadvantaged. THEN it got out to the feminists, and they started a campaign. Every study is a least a few years old by the time it reaches the general public; that's as "current" as current research gets. But maybe the schools got that info sooner because it was specifically applicable...? Yeah. *shrug*

Anyway, I feel like my earlier comment came off as...hmm...overzealous? That just hit a sore spot. See, I have nothing against "women can do science!" per se, but there's no male equivalent. I was in math class once, and some guys behind me were looking at a poster hanging on the wall behind them. "'Women in Mathematics?' How come there's no MEN in mathematics, huh? What, like we can't add and subtract?"

I think they should have, say, men in literature. Since that's supposed to be the male weak spot. I mean, everyone knows Shakespeare was a guy, but so what? Nobody knows shit about him except that he's a dead white guy who's practically incomprehensible. He might as well be a Martian. What if we got taught about the life of Jack London? That would be interesting. I just think there needs to be something to balance out, "And [X female scientist] was a woman, girls. See?"

Not that there can't be asshole teachers who DO treat girls badly. Heh heh, don't even get me started on my jr. high gym teacher. :P

[poopsmoothie.livejournal.com]

I know girls who've gone to all-women colleges, and enjoyed them greatly. They felt that there were fewer distractions, etc. (straight girls, natch.)

I can see advantags and disadvantages. There isn't a lot of real-world exposure, obviously, but sometimes that's nice. I'd go crazy, only because I don't get along with most girls very well.

[danielray.livejournal.com]

having gone to a women's college (heh heh), i do actually think that they *do* have their points. points that, yeah, are definitely relevant because we live in a highly sex-differentiated society and that might become irrelevant were society to become fully open toward all the ways that people can express their genders. but it's not.

so, hmm, my experience was something like this:

in high school, being a boy, i acted academically a lot like a boy--loud, aggressive, competitive. being a female-bodied boy, there was an element of tension to the whole setup--a sort of ongoing, underlying sense of fighting to maintain that space in the world. when i went to college, that tension was pretty much released. in an environment where people were all ostensibly the same gender, there was this overall relaxation of gender expectations... suddenly, being loud and aggressive was simultaneously acceptable in a way that hadn't previously been exactly acceptable, and--almost because of that acceptance--less relevant. i was able to begin a process of sorting out what aspects of my personality i was actually comfortable with, and what aspects were a sort of armor for use in a world that likes to place all sorts of expecations on people based on gender.

i think women's colleges, when they work well, are less about wanting to make up for getting the short end of the stick, and more about wanting a few years away from having to think about who's getting what end of that particular stick... it's in some ways about women knowing that they or other women will automatically be running the sorts of things that students run, but it's *also* about being able to *not* run things, to not be on top, without feeling like you're somehow giving in to sexism...

women's colleges are not an answer, not a way to learn to live in the world, but they *can* be a way to take a few years off from *having* to live with that particular dynamic of the world. and some people can benefit from that. either because they might learn something they might not have otherwise learned, or just because it's nice to have a few years off.

an added wrinkle is that women's colleges can certainly be attractive to pre-transguys (aka, people who will come out at trans later in life but are not yet aware of that aspect of themselves), because many women's colleges are known for being safe and comfortable and supportive places for women who are queer and/or gender variant.

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

Heh heh, okay I KNOW this is just me, but that sounds AWFUL. XD

Surrounded by women "taking a break," eeek! *mock sudder* (I'm ribbing you, ya'know.)


Okay, maybe. Although, personally, I think spending time in a place where I could relax about gender (well, let's pretend I would relax), would be like trying to deal with the quirks of my personality in a vacuum, sort of. I want that tension. There is more action in reaction, to me.

[danielray.livejournal.com]

ha ha! that's cuz you're a *boy,* dope...

i think it's a thing that is productive for some people, not so productive for others... some people like that tension, some people like some space away from that tension... because spaces like that are valuable for some people, then it's a valuable thing that they exist. *shrug*