Newsflash for some idiots out there:

[beandelphiki]

If you do not want to be called a bigot, don't DO or SAY bigoted things.

See how easy that is?


Edit I + II: [with Copied Comment]

This post is really in response to something of a war that went down in a journal on my friends list. Essentially, the OP is mad about rabid childfree folk. (For example, people who think that jokes about coathangers are funny. Um...? For one thing, that's incredibly offensive when you consider how much women's reproductive choices are being threatened in America right now. You'd think CF people would CARE about that...right? Huh.)

So, then someone else got pissy because people - shock! - don't like it when other people use bigoted language like, "breeders." Oh, and also? It's perfectly okay to denigrate the efforts of a mother who breaks her BACK trying to make her ADHD and ODD kid a responsible member of society. Because her kid might just, y'know, kick up a fuss in a store and ruin ten minutes out of someone's day before she can drag him out kicking and screaming, to go back home where she deals with it ALL DAY.

Some people shouldn't have kids.

Others? Shouldn't have been born.

Added:

My main comment on that post:

---

In response to all the complete crap that people spout about terms like "moos" and "breeders"...

I don't bloody well CARE what your reasons are for saying those things. They are NOT OKAY. I don't CARE what your justifications are ("not all parents are breeeders!"), it's NOT OKAY. Calling a mother a misogynistic thing like "moo" is NOT OKAY, and calling fathers "duds" doesn't make it okay either. Saying something bigoted is NOT OKAY.

Don't feed me a bunch of nonsense about how not all parents are breeders. It doesn't matter. If a parent is an awful parent, simply say they are an awful parent. The misogyny and slam on reproductive choices implicit in these terms is NOT OKAY. It's bigoted. And you really, really should STOP.

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Also, I like the OP's comment that the idea that parents who can't control their children are bad parents with bratty children leads to the idea that an "autistic child in meltdown" or an "overstimulated kid with ADHD" = "undisciplined brat." I think parents of non-NT children shovel ENOUGH shit before they even get crap like this.

Comments

[ravan.livejournal.com]

Sorry, but "moo" and "breeder" are just terms for "assholes with kids" in my lexicon. Is calling an asshole an asshole not OK? Or does the whole world have to be politically correct and oh so sensitive about the feeeelings of people who can't be bothered to actually parent their kids?

No, it's not bigoted to slam people who make bad reproductive choices and expect the rest of the world to bow down to them. It's called reality. Some women shouldn't be mothers, and don't know it. They act like cows who are entitled to the sun, moon and stars from everyone else, and the term for them is "moo".

If you don't think that is OK, then you are probably just another PC pushing jerk who thinks that people who reproduce are instantly and automatically "special", and entitled to deference from the entire world.

As far as the hypothetical ADD/ODD mother is concerned, well, I'm borderline ADD (as in they wanted to drug me with ritalin) and ODD myself, and my mother didn't expect the entire world to bow down and worship her and her children. When I got out of line in public, I was removed from public. Period. It's not rocket science. I was a little shit, but I *learned* not to act out in public. If a kid, NT or otherwise, can't behave in public, they need to be removed from public until they can get under control. Otherwise, they never learn how to behave in public. This crap of making excuses for kids who aren't NT and allowing them to act like animals in public does not do them any good. If anything, it condemns them to a life of ostracism and loneliness.

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

NO, those terms are NOT just words for "assholes with kids." They are seriously problematic, particularly "moo." Women are given shit no matter WHAT reproductive choice they make, and nobody needs to add to that. I do NOT have to step back and accept the hatred of women contained in that term.

You have absolutely no way of knowing who's made a "bad" reproductive choice and who hasn't. The example I gave you was designed to point out that there is no way in hell you understand someone's situation when you just see them in a store. One screaming kid could be everything from a really bad parent to an otherwise good parent (and an otherwise well-behaved child) having a really bad day. Is it so incredibly hard to give people the benefit of the goddamn doubt?

As for being a "PC pushing jerk"... You suggested I have an issue with a minority group using a term I don't understand - this is not the case. I have no issue with words like "cracker" (which I understand to have no significance outside of either a reference to a white person, or a reference to a flat piece of bread). I have a problem with "moo" because it's misogynistic, and "breeder" because it slams reproductive choice.

Funnily enough, though, most people who complain about things being too "PC" are those who want free leave to say whatever they want, no matter how disgusting it is.

Guess what? You don't get to make words mean anything you want them to mean. I could go around saying, for example, that "That's so gay!" is okay, because "gay" can mean homosexual, happy AND "stupid." But that bullshit justification doesn't make my usage ANY less homophobic.


And finally...I agree that when I child misbehaves in a store, they ought to yank that kid out of there as soon as possible. But some days it's going to be harder than others to get that kid under control. You say it's not rocket science? Neither is this - parents can't be fucking perfect all the time.

I seriously hope you're not extending that business about acting like animals to autistic kids having meltdowns, by the way.

[ravan.livejournal.com]

"Moo" is not mysogynistic, it's descriptive of a woman who acts like a cow with calves. Breeder refers to a person who choses to reproduce by default, without giving a damn about being a decent parent.

If you want to "define" those words to be problematic and bigoted, that's your problem, but as you say, "you don't get to make words mean anything you want them to mean". When these words are not ones that you use, or probably even hear except in the CF context, I don't think your definitions have priority. IOTW, the person who screams "bigot" first isn't always right.

By the way, "gay" can mean "happy", and only that, in the correct context. "We'll have a gay old time" has nothing to do with homosexuality.

As far as who has made a bad reproductive choice and who hasn't, I can only judge by what I see. If I see a parent who is unable to control their kid, and unwilling to even try, I will judge that they've made a bad reproductive choice.

Being disabled, physically or mentally, is no excuse for being an ass. I don't have to "understand someone's situation" when it's my ears or person being assaulted. Disability is not a social "get out of jail free" card. I wouldn't get away with ramming someone's car jst because they were parked in a handicapped space.

Why should the burden be on the bystanders to give parents "the benefit of the goddamn doubt"? Would they give me the benefit of the doubt if I snapped and smacked the shit out of their screaming kid? No? Would I expect people to give me the benefit of the doubt if I started yelling, cussing, and lashing out at people in the middle of a store? No. Sure, some kids don't know any better, but it's the parents job to teach them how to behave in public. It's not my job to stand back, suffering, irritated but forever giving people with kids the benefit of the doubt. It means that people never feel any pressure to do better, any embarassment for misbehavior. It's not my kid, but it is my ears and head, and I think I have a right to live without being abused by screaming kids (or their yelling parents, for that matter.)

Yes, no parent is perfect. But I'm not obligated to give every parent on the planet an "I'll never judge you pass" just because they have a kid. If I get judged by every tin pot idiot with an opinion, then why are they surprised when I exercise a similar right?

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'm having issues staying logged in to lj, which is why I haven't responded. And I'm extremely busy, so I'm mostly going to let this go except for two things:

By the way, "gay" can mean "happy", and only that, in the correct context. "We'll have a gay old time" has nothing to do with homosexuality.

You misunderstood me on the part about "gay." Yes, gay does mean happy, I wasn't disputing that's a legitimate definition. "Stupid," on the other hand, isn't.

When these words are not ones that you use, or probably even hear except in the CF context, I don't think your definitions have priority.

CF people do NOT have a monopoly on words like "breeder" and calling women cows.

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

P.S.

I've stated several times now that a misbehaving child ought to be removed from the store. You have a nice way of twisting other people's words to mean what you want them to. I find it really irritating when people claim that I've said something that I most definitely have NOT.

[jemyl.livejournal.com]

s far as the hypothetical ADD/ODD mother is concerned, well, I'm borderline ADD (as in they wanted to drug me with ritalin)

OH? When did anyone want to drug you with ritalin? Not when you were a child! ADHT was never discussed regarding you. The problem was anger management and sibling rivalry/jealousy on your part. A child who can and does spend an hour or more focused on reading one book is not generally considered to be ADHT. The one teacher who tried to say you were hyperactive was informed by your parents that if she would allow you to have recess instead of keeping you cooped up in a study carousel or on the floor in one position and on only one task all day, you would be no problem. Indeed, the following year, in third grade, a teacher who used positive reinforcement, behavior modification and mild removal to aid you in learning self-control, showed the whole school that it was the teacher and not the student who was a problem in second grade. For some unknown reason you decided that your parents had a second child because they didn't want you. I happen to think it was because your sibling was quite ill and needed extra attention for the first year of her life. At the same time your father was required to work lots of overtime hours in order to complete an overload of work at his job. This left your mother to pretty much handle both a sick, often screaming baby and a sweet, but confused and often angry little three and four year old, all on her own. You had been the total focus of her attention for three years. It must have been very hard for you when she paid more attention to your sister's screams of pain than to your request for a story. I mean, how does one explain to a three-year-old that the landlord's wife has threatened to call the cops or put us on the street if we can't keep the children (translation screaming baby) more quiet, particularly at night? With that introduction to babies, I don't blame you for not wanting any.

[ratkrycek.livejournal.com]

Thanks for this - it feels good to read. I've always been leeery of what I call "rabid childfree'ers" - I've known a few, and I usually end up reminding them that they were, in fact, once children themselves - to which the usualressponse is, of course, "If I misbehaved I would have been given what for when I was a child!"

Well. Maybe one should apply how closely women (and especially mothers) are watched today to when they grew up - and see if their parents treated them the same way. "Back then" a lot of abuse masqueraded as discipline, after all; all now, sometimes it feels like if a mother so much as breathes, someone's going to tell her she's doing something wrong. No, I'm not a mom, but I've seen society become increasingly - it's wonderful that abuse is no longer tolerated. But when everyone has an issue with parents, whether they have kids themselves or not - it rankles.

And those words, as you say, ARE bigoted, just as surely as anything else, any other perjorative thrown at an aggregate group.

And - hi there. I was recommended to friend you awhile ago (by Frank) but I'm just now getting around to doing so. You seem like an intelligent and well-spoken individual. :)