Blackfolk (why's it called that, anyway?)

[beandelphiki]

In my last entry, I mentioned I'm scared of black people. Well, I feel really weird having thrown that out there without saying a few words about it, so I'm going to. Yeah, I know I'm the only one that cares.

A few months ago, absolutcalm cross-posted a debate about Affirmative Action to both debate and blackfolk. I read the threads in debate, and decided they were completely asinine, so I hopped on over to blackfolk to see if there was more intelligent discussion there.

And lo and behold, there was! There was actually some very interesting debate, and I read it all...and somewhere in there people were talking about black hair care and how it's different from white hair care. Which made me go...uh? It is? Who'da thunk it?

Which is about the point that I added blackfolk to my friends list, because I figured, okay - I don't know what these people are talking about half the time, and I know that I'm freaked out unnecessarily by blacks, so let's add this and do something about both of those things, neh?

So I added it and figured I'd join debunkingwhite at some point when I had more time to read lj (it has since been added) and then I figured that gave me leave to dust off my hands and say to myself in a self-satisfactory manner, "Well, that's that!"

D'oh!

Recently, mau_x hit the scene, and well - a lot of people don't like what he has to say but you can say one thing for him - he's gotten some people to think. (I say some people, as I figure anything more generous than that is really giving the human race too much credit. Don't know what I mean? Read debate.)

So after reading some of the arguments people have gotten into over his posts, I've realized a few unsettling things:

- I've assumed that anyone on my friends list who hasn't explicitly stated their race/ethnicity is white. (Is anyone on my friends list not white and simply never bothered to mention it? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?)

- I've never added anyone I know to be black to my friends list. "But wait!" says my brain. "I've just never found anyone interesting enough to add!" Yes, you have and you still haven't. Besides, most of the time, if I see someone with, say, an icon of a black actor or something, I avoid checking them out. Oh. Right.

- Well, I added mau_x, actually. Troll or not, he's open about the fact that he doesn't like whites, and I'm more comfortable with that.



The only thing I keep coming back to is this guy who was in our high school. This guy freaked me out completely. He was violent, he was obscene, he was a walking ball of anger. I've never seen anyone else with such a big chip on their shoulder. And there was this whole group of black kids that seemed to love him for some reason. They all hung out together and took up tables in the middle of the lunchroom. I, personally, felt danger emanating from any area they took up, and was careful to avoid them, but then - I feel danger everywhere anyway. I'm afraid to walk outside my house some days.

I think cliques look threatening, no matter who they're made up of, really.

Anyway, this guy got expelled. As the rumours go (and we all know about rumours, but we all still remember them, and they often affect our opinions), he was expelled because a girl accused him of harassing her. (This much, I'm sure, is true.) According to many who claimed witness to it, he harassed and verbally assaulted her pretty systematically for months. Calling her a slut, telling her that she was ugly, that she was worthless. There were rumours that the whole story got told to the higher-ups when she attempted suicide, but I'd be leery of believing that part.

So he was expelled. He still rode on our bus sometimes, though, and the few times I ended up on the same bus with him are etched in my brain.

The first time, I was sitting on a bench seat at the back of the bus right across from him when he laid into this one girl. I don't know what she did to provoke him (which is not to say I'm blaming her, just that I'm not sure why he picked her) but he kept it up the whole bus ride. On and on about what an ugly slut she was. By the end of the ride she was in tears. I sat frozen the whole time, sweating buckets and praying he wouldn't notice me. Not very noble, you say? No, but I shoveled my own crap.

Now this seems to have a lot more to do with his issues with women then they could possibly have to do with race, but somewhere in my brain I made that connection. Maybe there's something he said to her that I don't consciously remember (likely, although what I've forgotten might not be anything), or maybe it's more that I heard someone say he only picks on white girls and thinks they're all sluts (more likely).

The second time I was on a bus with him, he didn't pick on anyone. But he has a loud, clear speaking voice, and I overheard his conversation at the back of the bus perfectly. He was talking about racism and how when he was a kid, other kids would call him and his black friends "tar monkeys." And the rage was vibrating in his voice.

That definitely struck a cord. I started remembering all the times I'd seen little kids call other little kids racial slurs, and some far worse than "tar monkeys." Not that I haven't dwelt a bit on that one before, but it was a little bit different. A little less theoretical, maybe?

---

I mean, you take an average group of white people, stick them in a room together and ask, "So, what do you think of racism?" and the general response would be something like this:

"Wow, it's really awful."
"Yup. Well, not so much anymore. But it's still bad."
"Bad. Uh-huh."
"Bad. Yep!"
"What's on TV?"

---

That one guy certainly could not have been the only thing that's led to this whole attitude of avoidance I have. But I think it sums it up pretty neatly.

Basically, whenever I see someone black, I get this panic-y fight-or-flight reaction. I keep thinking...that this person hates me. That they'd like to beat me up, or kill me. That when they see me, they only see "white," something to hate. (Yes, I'm aware of the irony, given that I'm the one having trouble seeing beyond color.) I don't think they will beat me up/kill me/whatever - it's not that. I just think that they want to, that I'm hated on sight. And rather than fall under that gaze, I'll run away.

...

Geez, now I don't know what to say. When I started writing this post, I sort of assumed that by the time I got to the end, I would have some sort of answer for this. Like the way I assumed that joining a few internet communities was going to solve all problems. But I don't have answers.

...I don't know, really. What actions do I need to take to see something change?

Maybe my problem is I don't want an evolution of my attitudes about things in my life. I just want them to change. Concretely. Guess it doesn't work like that.

(I keep looking at this post and seeing a compromise in tone that's quite jarring.)

Off to pass out on my face now. Damn allergies kill my strength.

Comments

[emperor-boy.livejournal.com]

I know that it might not mean much, but I think it's admirable that you admitted that you fear black people. I don't really *fear* anyone, but I do feel that "hated on sight" thing that you do-it's turned out not to be true in so many cases that I've *almost* gotten over it but people like absolutcalm make me wonder if I should regress.

Point is, I think we all need to try to follow your example. But don't forget that the way our society is built means that a lot of black people really do hate you just because you're white, just like some white people hate someone just for not being white.

[poopsmoothie.livejournal.com]

I'm half-Berber (an Arabic and African mix). I pretty much pass for Caucasian to Caucasians nowadays, but most black people can tell I'm mixed. When I was little, I was a lot darker, and I got called things by black and white kids. But I was raised by white people, so I have 'white' speaking patterns. That, apparently, makes all the difference.

I'm sometimes a little afraid of black people, but I think it's in the way I'm always a little afraid of anyone who seems different. I don't know what to do about it either.

[groovycat.livejournal.com]

you need to make some new friends. and then learn to not think of them as "my black friend," but just as "my friend." that's really the only way you'd get over this. as i was telling sardonic_girl a bit ago, i have a hard time even understanding the concept of racism or fears based on race. it's never been an issue with me, race isn't even something that immediately registers in my mind when i meet someone. this might be somewhat because my elementary school was predominantly black, and was located in a "black" neighbourhood that i got bussed in to. some of my earliest friends were black, as well as some of my earliest bullies. people are people; they're just as likely to be assholes as they are to be friendly, no matter what the race.

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

absolutcalm? Really? From what I've seen of him in debate, he seems like a reasonable guy.

*shrug*

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

Huh. Whadaya know. I've had you on my friends list for months now, and I didn't know any of that.

Cool, thanks.

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

Fr...iend?

Huh? Whazzat?


Yeah, as I was telling sardonic_girl (is there an echo in here?) in my last entry, Calgary has a very small black population. I went to the mall and then the library the other day with my mother...we ran all over the city, and I'm trying to remember how many of the people that I saw that day who might've been black. Two, maybe?

I've had a few friends who were black, so I don't know why that's different to me from someone I don't know.

[veronicabat.livejournal.com]

I haven't read everything that's going on ... I just wanted to thank you for being so open and apparently trying to improve yourself <3 Good job :)

[siegeengine.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

and you're talking to me about being open... ;)

no, but seriously, it is way cool that:
1.) you realize this...
2.) you admit it - to yourself as well as anyone else in the world
and
3.) you're disturbed enough by it to change.

I mean, like you said, it's not a unique situation for people of the white persuasion. I mean, not everyone... but... um... like quite a few people... um...

anyway, what's different here is that you admit to it AND you care. That's cool. I admit I had a problem like that in my past, too, where I was paranoid, briefly, because someone who was a friend of mine, who happened to be black, also, ended up in trouble at work, and thought it was me who turned him in, when it wasn't. And... I think I told you this already...

but he started bringing in all of these scary looking gang people into the store and standing there with them staring at me and pointing at me. Totally freaked me out for, like, two years afterwards.

I wish you could live in a more diverse area for a while. I think that would help your feelings in this area immensely. I mean, after a bit, you realize that people fit into a whole range, regardless of race, etc. I know people who are so so incredibly nice, and people who are so so incredibly not. Race doesn't even figure into it, but everyone I know is diverse.

Actually, someone who is, "very white," is rather unusual in this area. Not rare, or anything, but not "usual" for this area (Sacramento.) So... no one that I know really cares about race at all.

The place we moved to, hicksville um... in northern california, is very very white... and I, myself, have felt like I was under increased observation for my looks, even though I'm half-white (as ye know) and generally pass as white to white people, and half-asian to asian people. People see what they want to see, I guess.

Oh...

or, I guess it could be the Hello Kitty keychain that gets me looks.

or the pink watch(es)

or the rainbow pride bracelet...
and rainbow shoelaces...

um..

and the pink shirts?

anyway... *hugs* to you, for caring.... I wish I had something helpful to say about this, but I'm not sure there's anything, "theoretical" that would help. I think the only way to become more comfortable with people of different races is to hang out and interact with them... which is what you're doing, at least in LJ, so...

it's all good.

*hugses*

I keep thinking...that this person hates me. That they'd like to beat me up, or kill me. That when they see me, they only see "white," something to hate.

this, to me, sounds a bit like guilt. Like... you feel responsible for what black people have endured under the hands and oppression of white people.

Like the gentleman on the bus, when he spoke of being called, "tar monkey..." maybe that struck a nerve with you, and you took on responsibility for an entire "color" of people for what "they" did to this one person, to cause him to have so much hate and rage.

If it helps... it wasn't you.

And... most every person I know of any race, black included, tends to judge people by their actions, not by their color. They react to you based on how you treat people, even if, in their head, they're still very angry about the opression that their people sufferred.

Most people can make that distinction.

if that is the case with you, then you deserve to give yourself the same break.

[benthecube.livejournal.com]

you need to make some new friends. and then learn to not think of them as "my black friend," but just as "my friend." that's really the only way you'd get over this

I'm going to have to disagree, based on my own experience. I had a black friend when I was in high school (black people are about as common here as they are in Calgary) and I got passed thinking of her as a black person and generally thought of here as just a person and friend. But I still experience the innate prejudice Dan is talking about. It's almost as if I forgot that she was black, but still felt the same way whenever I was near any other black person. Basically, having a black friend didn't make me get over my irrational fears.

Dan, I loathe the fact that I get edgy around people who aren't white, but I haven't found a way to get around it yet. If you ever find a way let me know. At the moment I tend to deal with it by befriending the person I'm afraid of, as best I can. Prejudice tends to go away when you get to know them.

[groovycat.livejournal.com]

you had a black friend while in highschool... just one? if you only ever had the one black friend, you probably started thinking of that person as an exception to a rule..

but. i don't really know. again, i have trouble even understanding how these sorts of things happen at all. =/

[emperor-boy.livejournal.com]

::shrug;:

[sardonic-girl.livejournal.com]

Well, it is good that you're actually coming to terms with your prejudices and questioning the whys and wherefores. I'm going to have to disagree with the others, though, on the whole being colorblind thing. I think it's the main American mistake, to be pc and say, 'well, I can ignore the fact that they're Black, Chicano, Korean, etc. and just see the inner them!' I'm not speaking for everyone, but I do know that as a Black female, my heritage (and no, not just the oppression part) is a part of me. Just like I know my friends at uni as being Irish, pure straight-up gringo, Puerto-Rican/Phillipino, I would never ignore their color, it's who they are.

But I realize that despite their friendships, and despite my own experiences, there's just always that visceral reaction to certain things. I see a blonde twirling her hair, and I think 'who the fuck does she think she is?' I see a light black chick with long hair and I think 'stuck-up bitch.' I become the angry, indignant dark woman, though I know on an intellectual level that my thoughts are unjust. We have been trained as a country to react a certain way to the politics of racial visual stimulus, regardless of race.

For example, how many of our melanin-challenged friends here will see a black comedy but not a black drama? How many of us know much about black culture outside of the shit pandered by the media? Like Dan said, he was surprised when he found out that Black people had different hair types. Most white people are. Yet we, as black people must not only understand our history to be seen as real, we must know your history in order to survive (this is called double-consciousness.)On a more personal note, how many of you are kinda surprised deep down when you hear an intelligent person of color? Do you think, oh s/he's so articulate (even though there's no reason we shouldn't be)? Do you write off our anger as just 'typical Black anger'? Do you realize that most Black people are in fact suburban (60% live in the suburbs and are middle class.) Basically, do you assume that you are being progressive just because you have a couple of nice thoughts about the 'other' people who you don't intimately interact with, thus proving that you are not a bad person?

I'm sory if this sounds confrontational or blunt, but I've learned that hard questions have to be asked to get truthful answers. These things don't go away just because you placate yourself. Racism is not dead and gone, and its newfound subtleness still seep through us all like poison.

[unintentional.livejournal.com]

Very interesting entry that you have laid out here. Has me thinking about my own prejudices.

I've lived in a primarily white town for the last 12 years, and I have noticed an inate fear of blacks. Over and over again I've told myself that this is not right, but it's not something that I can just get over. I don't know if it's something that will lessen over time, or if it's something that I have to outwardly 'fix'.

It's odd, though, because I don't seem to have aversions to any other races. I do notice that other people are different colors (I don't understand how someone could ignore such things), but I do not let it sway my judgement of who that person is. I think that's where the line between noticing differences and prejudices against those difference.

[sunshineyellow.livejournal.com]

Wow. Bravo for looking and analyzing that problem. I know it's hard for a lot of people to identify how they think about race instead of pushing it away. Lot of bastards at my conservative school have these types of hang-ups but always want to say they have no problems and then nothing's accomplished. I hope you come to better terms with it and don't stop trying to get over any issues you might have. Anyway, hi! Wandered in off debate, since I adore Bean and all things Ender's Shadow related.

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

Cool, thanks. :)

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

white persuasion

Tee-hee!

I wish you could live in a more diverse area for a while. I think that would help your feelings in this area immensely. I mean, after a bit, you realize that people fit into a whole range, regardless of race, etc. I know people who are so so incredibly nice, and people who are so so incredibly not. Race doesn't even figure into it, but everyone I know is diverse.

I think that would help a lot, yeah. Hopefully someday when I'm all grown up. :P


The place we moved to, hicksville um... in northern california, is very very white... and I, myself, have felt like I was under increased observation for my looks, even though I'm half-white (as ye know) and generally pass as white to white people, and half-asian to asian people. People see what they want to see, I guess.

Funny, I didn't think you looked that white. Your features actually reminded me a bit of the Natives up here. There could be similarities... And asian, yeah.

Oh...

or, I guess it could be the Hello Kitty keychain that gets me looks.

or the pink watch(es)

or the rainbow pride bracelet...
and rainbow shoelaces...

um..

and the pink shirts?

Gee, ya think? :P

this, to me, sounds a bit like guilt. Like... you feel responsible for what black people have endured under the hands and oppression of white people.

Ahh, White Guilt(tm)!

Nah, I don't really consider myself responsible for slavery or whatever, but the oppression that still exists? If you're not part of the solution, you're definitely part of the problem.

if that is the case with you, then you deserve to give yourself the same break.

*SCREEEEEECH*

Wait. I already mentioned how I'm afraid to leave the house some days, right?

...I need to think about this....

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

Well, I credit lj for getting me to look at it, since this was where I saw people saying, "Yes, we all need to think about this stuff." It's pretty easy to say, "Well, *I* don't call anyone the n-word (or some other racial slur), so I'm not racist and everything's okay." I think that's probably what I was like when I signed up here.

And I think that's the way racism is presented to people a lot of the time. We see news stations reporting violent hate crimes, but they never say, "And on tonight: Non-white Barbie dolls are being presented as Barbie's less-important side-kicks! News at 8!"


Anyway. Ender's Shadow is the bestest. Have you read the others in the series?

(Have I posted a comment in debate recently? *scratches head*)

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

Very interesting reply. Your whole list of questions there...would you mind if I quoted you and reposted that in an entry? Just because I'm not sure many people will read this comment (this entry has likely lived out it's shelf life) and I think they're thought-provoking questions.

Just like I know my friends at uni as being Irish, pure straight-up gringo, Puerto-Rican/Phillipino, I would never ignore their color, it's who they are.

Agreed. I suppose my "inner self" is as much white as it is anything else, and I'm sure that applies to others.

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

It's odd, though, because I don't seem to have aversions to any other races. I do notice that other people are different colors (I don't understand how someone could ignore such things), but I do not let it sway my judgement of who that person is. I think that's where the line between noticing differences and prejudices against those difference.

Yeah, that's what I've found. Just blacks. But then...my area has a lot of whites and then a lot of asians, and so on.

Are there actually other races in your area that you automatically didn't "count" as much, or is your area truly almost all white? I'm curious.

[unintentional.livejournal.com]

We have a relatively high population of asians, ever growing, but I guess I didn't "count" them, because I was looking at it from a black/white perspective. The majority, nevertheless, is white.

[siegeengine.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

yeah, I know the whole "guilt" thing was kind of out of line... or... not quite the right tack to get at what I was trying to get at.

It just seemed to me that when the gentleman on the bus was expressing his dismay about his mistreatment at the hands of "white people," it seemed to touch a nerve. Almost like... white people = very mean and hurtful to black people, so black people = angry and hostile and might want to kill white people.

Again, I could be totally out in left field, but maybe part of that is implicit in if you're not part of the solution, you're definitely part of the problem.?

Something very slightly similar in me was how I assumed for a while that if I seemed gayish, that straight people, if they noticed, would hunt me down and hurt me/kill me. I think, in my case, it was because as I grew up, I got a very distinct anti-gay vibe from my dad, in which he passed on to me the idea that homosexuals were sick and disgusting for being how they/I were/am, and that we, collectively, were worthy of severe punishment, and deserved any bad thing that happened to us.

Hmm.. on reflection, that doesn't really seem to fit your scenario at all, at least not more than superficially.

Oh, and no, I know I don't really look white... but most people who are whitish are rather surprised to find out that I'm half not, for some reason. Just something I've noticed repeatedly in life.

[sardonic-girl.livejournal.com]

Heh, no, I don't mind if you repost. Just trying to get my convoluted message out there.