Yes, it IS your fault!
Aug. 2nd, 2002 05:20 pmSo,
endogenousardor made a post here about a debate he got into. (Um, I use the word "debate" rather loosely...)
The debate is ostensibly about whether or not a woman who goes home with a strange man, makes out with him, gets naked, and then changes her mind has more to do with getting raped than a woman who is simply abducted off the street and raped. (Did that make sense? Well, I'll try to be clearer.)
Mostly, it is really about whether or not a person who chooses a line of action that puts them at greater risk of danger has more personal responsibility if something happens than a person who did NOT choose a line of action that was dangerous.
So,
endogenousardor's position seems to be that you are responsible for stupid actions that result in your injury/death UNTIL you are somehow violently attacked, and then this absolves you of all responsibility you had for putting yourself in harm's way. BullSHIT, I say.
I thought part of the problem here is that he has the impression that someone who holds my position perhaps is not looking at the situation from a particularly "human" point of view, but a logical one, and he is right, but...would it help if I said I do not hold myself exempt from my own rules? That's what the first part of this post (behind the cut) is about.
The second part is trickier...somehow, the question of "sympathy" got into the debate...and it fucked things up royally, if I do say so myself. I'm sorry I ever got drawn into discussing sympathy.
But last night, I read one of his comments in which he asked about how society's view of sexual women ties into a lack of sympathy for the club-hopping rape victim. And when I responded to that comment last night, I had a very visceral, very defensive, very ANGRY reaction. (I don't know how much of that is apparent in the comment, but I did indeed get very angry.)
This morning it occurred to me to ask myself what that anger was about, and how that relates to my answer to the "sympathy" question...and that's what the second part of my post is about. I'll give a heads-up though, since this part is going to get very personal, and you probably don't care.
PART I
When I was nine, I was molested. [Feel free to exit if this is triggering.] This wasn't the only time in my life I've been sexually abused, but I feel I had personal responsibility in this case, which is why I am using this example.
There was a teenager in our neighbourhood that all the little kids thought was SO COOL...I'll call her P. P told me often, that I was "special," unlike the other kids, and that I was always welcome to hang out with her. She told me she thought I was cool, even though I was only 9. I'm sure she told all the little kids in the neighbourhood that.
One day, very bored, I went over to her house, and found her in the trailer in her backyard. I knew there were a ton of little kids in there, because of the row of itsy-bitsy shoes. I knocked on the door, and P first unlocked, then eased open the door a crack...I KNEW something was very wrong right then, because that trailer door was not supposed to be locked...everyone knew the rules in P's family.
She told me right at the door that if I wanted to come in, I had to promise never to tell an adult what went on inside. I had a million clues something was wrong...but I went inside anyway. Because I wanted to be cool. And I was molested in some very disgusting ways.
I consider myself HEALED of that experience, now. (The "healed" part has bearing later on, it's important.)
Was it my fault I was molested? NO. I was not responsible for P's actions, only my own.
So what was I responsible for? Walking into that fucking trailer in the first place. I KNEW to run away, get an adult, say no...P even gave me that choice. But I didn't take it, and that it is MY fault, and no one else's. I have a personal responsibility for putting myself in a position that was dangerous.
I think the fact that I was violated is irrelevant, and doesn't absolve me of responsibility for my actions. I think the fact that I was a child is irrelevant.
I see you all staring in horror at the slippery slope. This is where healing comes in.
It is part of the healing process to accept responsibility for those actions you took that lend to your abuse. And then...forgive yourself. "Forgiving yourself" is a very large part of becoming a survivor (as opposed to a victim.) But you cannot forgive yourself for actions you don't first take responsibility for.
I would never suggest anyone take responsibility for those actions until they are mentally in the place to do so.
PART II
Now we come to the second part...ugh. If you thought it was heavy before... Gets very personal ahead.
This morning I was asking myself...if I can forgive MYSELF of actions that led to my molestation...why can I not forgive the club-hopping woman? Why does this make me see red?
After a great deal of thinking, these are the conclusions I have come to...
It makes me furious to see
endogenousardor absolving this woman of responsibility I think she should (eventually) take on herself. What better way to keep her a VICTIM, rather than a survivor!
But mostly, I think we get into my own fucked-up relationship to responsibility. In my family, you are to blame for everything, and nothing. This is because everyone in my family likes to blame someone else for everything.
Example: When I was 13, a man began sexually harassing me at my bus stop when I was was walking home. I ran away from him, he chased me home, and I hid around the side of my house. I discovered that I had locked myself out of my house. (Yay for latch-key kids...) I spent the next (miraculously few) minutes convinced I was going to be raped.
When my mother heard the story, she screamed at me, "It's your fault! If you were taking a school bus with a bus stop closer to home, it never would have happened! You're fucking stupid!"
So, I've realized, my problem is...I'm jealous. I'm jealous of that club-hopping rape victim I'm sure many people want to put in a bubble and coo over. "Poor thing!" (See my insane jealousy at work here?) I'm jealous she gets coddled when I didn't. I'm jealous that I had to DEAL with my responsibility, and some people think she SHOULDN'T HAVE TO. And it pisses me off royally that someone can say someone else should have their sexuality used as an excuse...I didn't HAVE a sexuality when I was nine, and I barely had one at 13, either.
What does this mean in terms of how much sympathy I have for her? I still don't feel sorry for her (although I feel BAD, if you see the distinction).
I now doubt this is as logical as I previously thought.
The debate is ostensibly about whether or not a woman who goes home with a strange man, makes out with him, gets naked, and then changes her mind has more to do with getting raped than a woman who is simply abducted off the street and raped. (Did that make sense? Well, I'll try to be clearer.)
Mostly, it is really about whether or not a person who chooses a line of action that puts them at greater risk of danger has more personal responsibility if something happens than a person who did NOT choose a line of action that was dangerous.
So,
I thought part of the problem here is that he has the impression that someone who holds my position perhaps is not looking at the situation from a particularly "human" point of view, but a logical one, and he is right, but...would it help if I said I do not hold myself exempt from my own rules? That's what the first part of this post (behind the cut) is about.
The second part is trickier...somehow, the question of "sympathy" got into the debate...and it fucked things up royally, if I do say so myself. I'm sorry I ever got drawn into discussing sympathy.
But last night, I read one of his comments in which he asked about how society's view of sexual women ties into a lack of sympathy for the club-hopping rape victim. And when I responded to that comment last night, I had a very visceral, very defensive, very ANGRY reaction. (I don't know how much of that is apparent in the comment, but I did indeed get very angry.)
This morning it occurred to me to ask myself what that anger was about, and how that relates to my answer to the "sympathy" question...and that's what the second part of my post is about. I'll give a heads-up though, since this part is going to get very personal, and you probably don't care.
PART I
When I was nine, I was molested. [Feel free to exit if this is triggering.] This wasn't the only time in my life I've been sexually abused, but I feel I had personal responsibility in this case, which is why I am using this example.
There was a teenager in our neighbourhood that all the little kids thought was SO COOL...I'll call her P. P told me often, that I was "special," unlike the other kids, and that I was always welcome to hang out with her. She told me she thought I was cool, even though I was only 9. I'm sure she told all the little kids in the neighbourhood that.
One day, very bored, I went over to her house, and found her in the trailer in her backyard. I knew there were a ton of little kids in there, because of the row of itsy-bitsy shoes. I knocked on the door, and P first unlocked, then eased open the door a crack...I KNEW something was very wrong right then, because that trailer door was not supposed to be locked...everyone knew the rules in P's family.
She told me right at the door that if I wanted to come in, I had to promise never to tell an adult what went on inside. I had a million clues something was wrong...but I went inside anyway. Because I wanted to be cool. And I was molested in some very disgusting ways.
I consider myself HEALED of that experience, now. (The "healed" part has bearing later on, it's important.)
Was it my fault I was molested? NO. I was not responsible for P's actions, only my own.
So what was I responsible for? Walking into that fucking trailer in the first place. I KNEW to run away, get an adult, say no...P even gave me that choice. But I didn't take it, and that it is MY fault, and no one else's. I have a personal responsibility for putting myself in a position that was dangerous.
I think the fact that I was violated is irrelevant, and doesn't absolve me of responsibility for my actions. I think the fact that I was a child is irrelevant.
I see you all staring in horror at the slippery slope. This is where healing comes in.
It is part of the healing process to accept responsibility for those actions you took that lend to your abuse. And then...forgive yourself. "Forgiving yourself" is a very large part of becoming a survivor (as opposed to a victim.) But you cannot forgive yourself for actions you don't first take responsibility for.
I would never suggest anyone take responsibility for those actions until they are mentally in the place to do so.
PART II
Now we come to the second part...ugh. If you thought it was heavy before... Gets very personal ahead.
This morning I was asking myself...if I can forgive MYSELF of actions that led to my molestation...why can I not forgive the club-hopping woman? Why does this make me see red?
After a great deal of thinking, these are the conclusions I have come to...
It makes me furious to see
But mostly, I think we get into my own fucked-up relationship to responsibility. In my family, you are to blame for everything, and nothing. This is because everyone in my family likes to blame someone else for everything.
Example: When I was 13, a man began sexually harassing me at my bus stop when I was was walking home. I ran away from him, he chased me home, and I hid around the side of my house. I discovered that I had locked myself out of my house. (Yay for latch-key kids...) I spent the next (miraculously few) minutes convinced I was going to be raped.
When my mother heard the story, she screamed at me, "It's your fault! If you were taking a school bus with a bus stop closer to home, it never would have happened! You're fucking stupid!"
So, I've realized, my problem is...I'm jealous. I'm jealous of that club-hopping rape victim I'm sure many people want to put in a bubble and coo over. "Poor thing!" (See my insane jealousy at work here?) I'm jealous she gets coddled when I didn't. I'm jealous that I had to DEAL with my responsibility, and some people think she SHOULDN'T HAVE TO. And it pisses me off royally that someone can say someone else should have their sexuality used as an excuse...I didn't HAVE a sexuality when I was nine, and I barely had one at 13, either.
What does this mean in terms of how much sympathy I have for her? I still don't feel sorry for her (although I feel BAD, if you see the distinction).
I now doubt this is as logical as I previously thought.