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beandelphikiI've exchanged a few PMs with this guy on Gaia. He keeps making these long-winded rants in various threads, and he never made a lot of sense to me, so I asked him to clarify. This was his response:
As for what I am trying to say in the posts I've written, and the quotes I've put into some of the posts, here goes.
The research I've done is based on a simple premise. I want the United States to remain a free country. That is it. That's the whole kit and kaboodle. I will use quotes here from other sources, so that what the other author included doesn't come from what appears to be a vacuum.
"Aboliton of the family! Even the most radical flare up at this infamous proposal of the Communists. On what foundation is the present family, the bourgeois family, based? On capital, on private gain. In its completely developed form this family exists only among the bourgeoisie.
But this state of things finds its complement in the practical absence of the family among the proletarians, and in public prostitution. The bourgeois family will disappear as a matter of course when its complement vanishes, and both will vanish with the vanishing of capital.
...Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeoise production...
There are, besides, eternal truths, such as Freedom, Justice, etc., that are common to all states of society. But communism abolishes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality, instead of constituting them on a new basis; it therefore acts in contradiction to all past historical experience.
...These measures will of course be different in different countries. Nevertheless, in the most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communications and transport in the hands of the state.
8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. 10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc., etc.
These are from The Communist Manifesto, by Marx, and Engel.
Dreamy! I italicized the ones I find most intriguing with regard to the United States.
As far as your comment about atheism, here's a Communist/Socialist view of religion, from Dr. Tom Dooley's book, Deliver Us From Evil?:
He told how they came into a Christian school and gathered together the young pupils there who were ten to fourteen years of age. They also brought the teacher before these young students. Because these students had the audacity listen to the teachings about God and the Bible, the soldiers took their heads and held them while the other soldiers broke off chopsticks and then (as related in the Congessional Record) "They grasped their heads between their hands; the others rammed their wooden chopsticks into each ear. He jammed it in with all of his force. The sticks split the ear canal and tore the eardrum. The shrieking of the children was heard all over the village. Both ears were stabbed in this fashion. The children screamed and wrestled and suffered horribly. Since their hands were tied behind them, they could not pull the wood out of their ears. They shook their heads and squirmed about, trying to make the sticks fall out. Finally, they were able to dislodge them by scraping their heads against the ground. The teacher, because he had spoken these things, they grabbed his tongue with crude pliers, pulled it out of his mouth, and cut it off."
(from The Great Deception, by Dr. D James Kennedy.)
Here is a sampling of other books I take information from, not as gospel truth, you understand, but rather, as incremental data. Considered seperately, and then taken together, gives one certain images which are not swept away at the first sign of indignation by those who do not agree.
Whatever Happened to the American Dream, by Larry Burkett.
America: What Went Wrong? by Donald L Bartlett and James B. Steele.
The Power of the Modern Presidency by Erwin C. Hargrove
Who Will Tell the People by William Greider
Constitutional Law of the Federal System by C Herman Pritchett
The Death of Common Sense by Phillip K. Howard
Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand
1984 by George Orwell
Excellence, Can We Be Equal and Excellent Too? by John W. Gardner
The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels
The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William H. Shirer
I only bought the book I referred you to at the www.deliberatedumbingdown.com 3 or 4 months ago. I haven't read all of it.
As for your parents and your situation, I am rather sorry about that. I know whereof you write, unfortunately. The things I could write here in under 30 seconds might convince you that I should have a rather different outlook on life, but somehow, someway, I came through hell on earth with respect for others intact. I don't know how. I'm glad I did though.
For now, take care. I look forward to future discussions with you. Oh, I'm 36 by the way. (Coworkers at my job were laughing uproariously a few months back, and it turns out a few of them were in the forum. I'd never heard of Gaia before, but I joined to get in on the fun, and have found a cool niche inthe poetry forum, and have pissed off many in the extended discussion forum. )
Anyway, good luck in all your endeavors.
I have not the faintest fucking idea what this is supposed to mean. What's all this about communism?
Can anybody give me a clue as to what he's trying to get across? Maybe I'm just stupid, but I feel like I'm reading Arabic.
As for what I am trying to say in the posts I've written, and the quotes I've put into some of the posts, here goes.
The research I've done is based on a simple premise. I want the United States to remain a free country. That is it. That's the whole kit and kaboodle. I will use quotes here from other sources, so that what the other author included doesn't come from what appears to be a vacuum.
"Aboliton of the family! Even the most radical flare up at this infamous proposal of the Communists. On what foundation is the present family, the bourgeois family, based? On capital, on private gain. In its completely developed form this family exists only among the bourgeoisie.
But this state of things finds its complement in the practical absence of the family among the proletarians, and in public prostitution. The bourgeois family will disappear as a matter of course when its complement vanishes, and both will vanish with the vanishing of capital.
...Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeoise production...
There are, besides, eternal truths, such as Freedom, Justice, etc., that are common to all states of society. But communism abolishes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality, instead of constituting them on a new basis; it therefore acts in contradiction to all past historical experience.
...These measures will of course be different in different countries. Nevertheless, in the most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communications and transport in the hands of the state.
8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. 10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc., etc.
These are from The Communist Manifesto, by Marx, and Engel.
Dreamy! I italicized the ones I find most intriguing with regard to the United States.
As far as your comment about atheism, here's a Communist/Socialist view of religion, from Dr. Tom Dooley's book, Deliver Us From Evil?:
He told how they came into a Christian school and gathered together the young pupils there who were ten to fourteen years of age. They also brought the teacher before these young students. Because these students had the audacity listen to the teachings about God and the Bible, the soldiers took their heads and held them while the other soldiers broke off chopsticks and then (as related in the Congessional Record) "They grasped their heads between their hands; the others rammed their wooden chopsticks into each ear. He jammed it in with all of his force. The sticks split the ear canal and tore the eardrum. The shrieking of the children was heard all over the village. Both ears were stabbed in this fashion. The children screamed and wrestled and suffered horribly. Since their hands were tied behind them, they could not pull the wood out of their ears. They shook their heads and squirmed about, trying to make the sticks fall out. Finally, they were able to dislodge them by scraping their heads against the ground. The teacher, because he had spoken these things, they grabbed his tongue with crude pliers, pulled it out of his mouth, and cut it off."
(from The Great Deception, by Dr. D James Kennedy.)
Here is a sampling of other books I take information from, not as gospel truth, you understand, but rather, as incremental data. Considered seperately, and then taken together, gives one certain images which are not swept away at the first sign of indignation by those who do not agree.
Whatever Happened to the American Dream, by Larry Burkett.
America: What Went Wrong? by Donald L Bartlett and James B. Steele.
The Power of the Modern Presidency by Erwin C. Hargrove
Who Will Tell the People by William Greider
Constitutional Law of the Federal System by C Herman Pritchett
The Death of Common Sense by Phillip K. Howard
Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand
1984 by George Orwell
Excellence, Can We Be Equal and Excellent Too? by John W. Gardner
The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels
The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William H. Shirer
I only bought the book I referred you to at the www.deliberatedumbingdown.com 3 or 4 months ago. I haven't read all of it.
As for your parents and your situation, I am rather sorry about that. I know whereof you write, unfortunately. The things I could write here in under 30 seconds might convince you that I should have a rather different outlook on life, but somehow, someway, I came through hell on earth with respect for others intact. I don't know how. I'm glad I did though.
For now, take care. I look forward to future discussions with you. Oh, I'm 36 by the way. (Coworkers at my job were laughing uproariously a few months back, and it turns out a few of them were in the forum. I'd never heard of Gaia before, but I joined to get in on the fun, and have found a cool niche inthe poetry forum, and have pissed off many in the extended discussion forum. )
Anyway, good luck in all your endeavors.
I have not the faintest fucking idea what this is supposed to mean. What's all this about communism?
Can anybody give me a clue as to what he's trying to get across? Maybe I'm just stupid, but I feel like I'm reading Arabic.
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(no subject)
Date: 2003-10-19 02:33 pm (UTC)the bourgeoisie
According to what I can tell about the Marxist theories (which I've made an effort to never study, for some reason... maybe I feared I'd find them too attractive) the bourgeoisie represent a form of middle class that no longer exist.
The proletariat, or the working class, have invaded and, indeed, taken over the position of the bourgeoisie. The struggle of the urban proletariat has always been to achieve some sort of comfortable status near that of the bourgeoisie. In communism, the proletariat control the means of production, while production is out of the hands of the bourgeouisie.
Um.. I'm making less sense than that guy did.
let me rephrase... he states that he wants the US to remain free... and that his basis of fearing the loss of freedom is the demise of the basic family unit... attributing this to communism, for some reason.
He states that only by remaining bourgeois can a family remain intact. This is preposterous. Clearly, we have become a society with a "working" middle class, the proletariat has property, it has rights, we pay taxes and get credit, and have access to free education. (arguable, I know)
so... I mean, I don't even know what he is arguing about, but he appears to be wrong. The communist theory that the rise of the working class will be the downfall of the society is clearly false, so using it as a basis to support an argument is rather backwards.
...
further, his italicized bits of marxism are hardly enough to convince anyone that communism has taken over the US. You can take ANY book, and find a phrase or 3 that "seem" to apply, when taken out of context, yet to further argue that such applications are "proof" borders on idiotic.
Sure, we have a graduated tax, and state control over mass transportation. What he is ignoring is that we have a representative based government (or.. had before the current evil bastard took over the white house)
His emphasis on Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. is clearly a reference to the rise of agricultural workers, under such leaders as Cesar Chavez, and/or the rise of unionization of workers. Unfortunately, Cesar Chavez is gone, and the "armies" of the agricultural workers have since dispersed. Workers still till the fields of this country for pennies an hour and can be picked up for virtually nothing on many street corners. The illegal immigrants and others who do this type of work have been under heavy attack for years by the republicans on one hand, and by people fighting for their rights, on the other hand, yet they, themselves, have done precious little fighting, of late.
So... his whole communism thing is a figment of his own imagination, and the one sidedness of the books he seems to read. He seems to be trying to argue that communism is taking over the country, destroying the family, and it's only a matter of time before we've all got our hands tied behind our backs and broken chopsticks shoved into our ears.
Politics, indeed, make strange bedfellows.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-10-20 11:40 am (UTC)Must be a variation of "Murphy's Law" or something...
I think I should start replying from one of my other journals, just so I don't kill yours all the time. :P
(no subject)
Date: 2003-10-20 01:27 pm (UTC)*runs back to class*