Forgivenesss

[beandelphiki]

Someone on my friends list made a post about what forgiveness is. Several who have replied seem to have stated that "forgiveness is..." and then someone else disagrees with them.

IS there one right definition of forgiveness? Guess not. I suppose how you process an inflicted wound is individual.

Edit: Erm, triggering? Possibly? I'm not sure. I doubt it's that triggering, but just in case.

My understanding of forgiveness:

So, there was a teenage girl who sexually abused me when I was nine. Right? I've mentioned that before. And about 5, 6 years after that...I finally understood that this abuse didn't make ME a bad person, and that she had hurt me. I was furious. Beyond furious. Enraged all the time. I wanted to hurt her back, and I seriously contemplated finding her and beating her bloody. If I had been ABLE to find her again, I might have tried to do just that.

Then...one day...I realized I wasn't mad anymore. I just wasn't. It wasn't a conscious decision, or any process I was actually aware of. It just happened.

And when I thought about it, I realized why I wasn't mad. Before, I had only been seeing my own pain and the impact of the abuse on my life. But there were things I noticed and realized at the time that I had disregarded in my anger, and when the impact lessened, I had some time to examine them.

When she took me into her bedroom (and she only ever took me in there for one thing) she would put a chair under the doorknob. The first time she did that I (unknowingly) asked her why, and she replied that this locked the door, and said, "I do that to keep my brother and my dad out of my room at night."

...

It's this, and a few subtler things that brought me to the realization that she was very likely sexually abused herself. I knew little about her father, but from what I saw of him at the time, he frightened me more than my own (and that's saying something!) I think that, if anything, her home life was worse than mine by far.

And, understanding that, I don't care anymore that she hurt me. I didn't just decide not to care, but I realized that she was a kid, like me. A scared, abused kid. Like me. Her own individual way of responding to her abuse (becoming an abuser herself) is reprehensible, but that could have been me, if our situations were different.

I would support sending her to jail if she is still abusing children. Just because I have forgiven her for past actions toward me, does not mean that I think I have the right to either forgive her actions toward others or to not uphold the law. I believe that people who molest children should be locked up. Absolutely.

This is getting difficult to verbalize, so I'll end with the definitions people seem to be arguing in the other person's journal:

I did not forgive her because "letting go" will mean she no longer sucks up my energy. That is probably a wise thing to master, but I haven't.

And I did not forgive her, obviously, because I trust her again.

I forgave her because....ah-HA! I have it!...I felt like loving her. Yes, that's right. Loving her. (And I'm sure somebody out there reading this cringed in utter horror.) I don't love the person who abused me, but I love the little girl who got hurt so badly that the way she now deals with it is to hurt others. I look past the one who hurt me - she doesn't matter as much as the other one. And I am stronger than them both, and it is in my power to forgive them both, and lend my strength where it's needed. (In vain, since she'll never know, but there you go.)

It's like the theory in Ender's Game...the idea that once you understand someone, you cannot not love them.

I'm so, so, sorry she was hurt, because she showed me what it feels like. I only wish the best for her, and I hope she is no longer hurting children...for her sake and theirs. I know that's probably a foolish hope, but I hope all the same.

Mock that all you bloody well want.

Comments

[siegeengine.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

that is so so so sad to me... about her, and about you, and about your feelings towards her. Not sad in a bad way, but sad in a knowing, understanding way.

I totally understand what you mean by loving the child she was, and wishing there was some help for her and therefore forgiving what she did as a result of what she had become.

Actually, I think you are truly wonderful and amazing for having the ability to see the "real" child, underneath the one who hurt you. That is an amazing insight, and not one that most people would be able to embrace.

Of course, knowing that I was around at that time, and was an adult, and yet could do / did nothing to help either of you really eats at me, if I let it. Goodness knows I've got enough defensive shells to protect me against normal to high levels of these kinds of feelings, but in this case, it still manages to eat at me.

*big big hugs*
*protection*

It's odd that I posted something vaguely similar just a few moments ago, except it seems that I'm stuck in the same space you were at first... the violent, angry phase, before you transcended into that higher level.

I don't know if I can do the same thing.
I'd like to try, though.

[ratkrycek.livejournal.com]

Wow. Amazing.

Uh - first, hi, I hope you don't mind my being here. I came here to see another post that was mentioned, and saw this, and just... yeah, that. It makes a lot of sense to me, too. I was abused by a female babysitter, also... can't remember just how old I was, it went on for a fair bit of time... but yeah. Somehow, I was never angry at her, only sorry about the whole thing. Actually, I hardly talk about it, so it's funny, or not, that I would talk about it in the journal of someone I have never talked to before.

For those who wrong me, I try to understand them, and see why they did what they did, and the good person underneath the bad... shell? Persona? Facade? And then I sometimes try to love them, help them... maybe reach them with love somehow?

Yeah. But to me, when I do that... it's not always what I think of a forgiveness. it's maybe beyond forgiveness. When I read that, I thought, "Wow. That's love, in its pure form."

Viewing things as just retaining energy, as I suggested, pales in comparison in my mind to the purity of that statement of yours.

Maybe that was not your intent... but all I can say is wow. You're a very wise person. And thank you for sying it... some things make more sense to me now.

Anyway... that's really all I have to say - this post touched me, and you're wise. Extremely so.

Mock you? Not at all. The opposite.

*nod*

*huggles him*

[criminalasylum.livejournal.com]

V. Cool. I always like what you have to say bean and once again you make sense.

I understand where your coming from and I it just makes me want to huggle you. Because that's really cool thoughts and whatnot.

*feels stupid*

Ok, so I have toes and I'm going to walk this way.

[griffen.livejournal.com]

As the person who posted the original "forgiveness" post, I am so not going to mock you for this mature and amazing thing you've done.

And remember that I said that one of the components that I *must* have, to let go of something, is understanding. I don't understand why this particular person felt it was okay to hurt me -- okay, I understand it intellectually, it's his pattern, but I don't understand why he did it on a gut level, because I don't understand how anyone would follow that pattern and not go insane after a while.

And that's probably what's blocking me from being able to let go. I just don't understand how he can't know what it's done to me and is still doing to me, and of course I have no way to find out....

[aerindipity.livejournal.com]

You're absolutely right about forgiveness, and about understanding, and about love. I have no personal story that can compare to yours, but I feel the same way about the people who have hurt me in my life. At the time, I hated them, I hated what they did to me, and I never would have believed that one day I'd look back and understand why they did it, and empathize, and love. It doesn't make what they did okay. It just makes them human. That's the most important thing about forgiveness, to me. Discovering the humanity that exists in even our most reviled adversaries. It's very hard to explain, but I think you did so amazingly well. Thank you.

(((((Em)))))

[haleth.livejournal.com]

I had no idea (though in hindsight, I should have). :-( I'm sorry.

(((((Dan)))))

[haleth.livejournal.com]

That's an amazing insight. I don't have anything to say to it, except that I agree completely with everything you've written here. I've gone through the same process, but never with anyone who hurt me as bad as she did you. I doubt I'd be strong enough to.

Yay, you've restored my faith in homosapeiens

[lytheris.livejournal.com]

Why on earth would anyone mock you for such a mature and truely admirable statment and understanding? I think alot of times that the problem with most people, in any conflict, is that most don't know how to forgive. They just let their hate eat at them refusing to examine that which got them there and cling to their ignorance doing harm to themselves in the process. But your forgivness in away I think extends beyond the perameters of the word forgivness, and in doing so becomes even more admirable. And even though you understand the girl who harmed you you don't forgive and forget because that would be reprehensible, it means that you know there is a problem and your willing to do something about it even if you do hate her for what she's done. That is what is the most laudable of your statement. I wish more people would think and act in such a manor ( I rarely believe there is a behavior or attitude that would actually allow humans to get along and achieve that never attainable and idealistic BS about world peace, but I think that is most definatly one of those attitudes that if everyone could emulate the world most definatly be a perfect place) And really anyone who would mock you foth this isn't worth anyones time or attention. (i'm sorry very long winded but I think you struck a nerve)