Holy sh... Racism drama!

[beandelphiki]

WOW. SO MUCH DRAMA in lj-land last night. I didn't get any schoolin' done.

So...people outside of feminist have been complaining for ages that the community lets white privilege run unchecked, and that it's exclusionary to women of color. The mods decide to fix this.

welsey makes a mod post explaining the new rules.

Based on some feedback, here are definitions of racism and sexism as we are using them. We are aware of the dictionary definition; however, we have chosen to use this definition because it is commonly used in anti-racist and social justice communities, and we ask that you also use it while you are in our space. More clarification may be added later:
racism = prejudice + power
sexism = prejudice + power
We separate these things from prejudice because the implications of racism and sexism (as we define them) are so much more significant and powerful than those of prejudice.

[...]

Reverse racism is not a valid concept.


And feminist go BOOM.

People disagree, whine, complain, and just generally miss the entire point.

I replied, basically telling the mods pip-pip and good job, and I was sorry they were taking so much crap from the uninformed. I should have realized that would cause a shitload of drama, but didn't really. That also went BOOM.

(Can anybody tell that I have very, very little patience? Yeah. I think I really got off on the wrong foot with the "dingdingding" comment, but really...when someone says that OMG! You're calling all the [white, because that's what I meant] people who disagree with anti-racism rules racist! the snark just tends to come out.)

They're/we're up to 700 comments now. I started replying because I said that I did not want to leave the mods fighting this one alone. I am almost sorry at this point; my inbox is pleading with me to stop, so I'm mostly going to bow out and see how it plays.

Over on journalfen, OTF_Wank is having a real laugh at our expense.

(First comment: "beandelphiki is a moron." I think I also got called a "Feminazi," the logic of which makes my brain hurt. I thought that if I ever got called THAT, it would be for arguing hard-line pro-choice or something, not critical race theory. OKAY!)

More fallout:

blackfolk: Nice try guys, but you still SUCK.

sex_and_race/feminist_rage: See, this is why we're all in HERE, instead of over THERE. (Idiots.)

ap_racism: Okay, nothing yet, but I'm waiting on the "GAAAH!" reaction. SOMEBODY will say something, I'm sure.


*sits and looks at this mess*

You know, I think it's a good thing I will be busy working a lot during Christmas, and staying (for the most part) far away from lj. MY BRAIN.


Edit: Yes, I'm white. Jeebus. (And if you don't know why I added this, don't worry, just ignore.)

Comments

[lordalfredhenry.livejournal.com]

Interesting. It's something a lot of people should know about. That said, there might be one nitpick. Some incidents of prejudice are more harmful than some aspects of racism. Also racism doesn't need an institution to exist, it can be done be a person. I've always held that reverse racism didn't exist because racism is just "racism" and there are no "forward" or "backward" and to imply a "forward" somehow implies that one is somehow above or below or otherwise oriented as primary or perhaps more common (which might be the case but not a better point).

Anyhow, I think it might only be controversial because it might be a deep subject to think about due to our day to day understandings or misunderstandings or blindness to what may exist beneathe our noses. I know there is homophobia-"ism".

Many people reject "isms" altogether as do say the Rastafarians...(whether you agree with them or not...they used to be more Black Supremacy but now are not). So with all these "reversals" of stance and description and new senses of understanding...it is understandable to want to discuss but perhaps not to disagree with some policy that looks well and soundly put forth.

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

I'm laughing at "homophobia-ism." :P

In the context of what's being discussed there, racial prejudice can never be more harmful than racism, because a racist culture is always the larger context for racial prejudice. Hope that makes sense. Ask if it doesn't, I'll try to explain further.

Also racism doesn't need an institution to exist, it can be done be a person.

It's true that racial prejudice does not require institutionalization behind it; people of color can be prejudiced towards whites or towards each other, but this is not systematically entrenched in that they are capable of oppressing another racial group in our society. White racism IS systematic like that, and is oppressive. Again, I hope that makes sense.

Anyhow, I think it might only be controversial because it might be a deep subject to think about due to our day to day understandings or misunderstandings or blindness to what may exist beneathe our noses.

Exactly!

it is understandable to want to discuss but perhaps not to disagree with some policy that looks well and soundly put forth.

I would have been happy, honestly, to discuss the matter calmly, but it pushes my buttons big time when people start complaining, "You're calling me names!" before they ask "what's going on, and could things be clarified first?"

The policy itself, as I understand it, was developed with some thought between the mods as a result of months of expressed discontent from people. It wasn't like they just woke up yesterday and decided to make new rules.

Thanks for checking in.

[lordalfredhenry.livejournal.com]

I mean, only in individualized contexts, one act of racial prejudice can be worse than another but neither as bad as the racism. I mean, a black person killing a white person because of color is worse than denying a job to a black person and it is certainly true with the colors switched (and possibly worse because of "racism" as defined in the context being stated) but neither is as bad as racism as a whole and the racism exists where the side is strongest. I still don't think a "system" is necessarily racist because it has power because it could be diverse and fair but ours isn't. That's all.

The systematic racism does make sense and I acknowledge that it exists.

I avoid ad hominems at all costs. I will typically ignore all future posts as soon as it may rear its head. I guess I do need to understand more the months of discontent and I'm sure there are very valid reasons for it. Really, just checking in to agree with everything you've said and I wanted to clarify that I agree, racial prejudice can never be more harmful than racism as it exists now. As long as we have capital punishment, it definitely is. Oppression is too. However, if there is "very very subtle/slight" turned up noses and a lot of killings by the oppressed in response, I think it can be debatable at that point. In the general context that can be true. It isn't in any contexts that I know of now though. I think racism is quantifiable by sum of harm as well as fears and emotions of people horrified/oppressed by it.

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

Hrmm. Let me think on this and get back to you.

I'll just say that I think a lot of people there don't realize how long this has been stewing for, so to them it appears very sudden and arbitrary. Which may be in slight part reason for the reaction. Slight part.